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comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . For God does not share His glory with no one (cf. Jesus then reiterates (as a corrective) that by seeing Him they can see, that is, know or recognize the invisible Father (v. 9). Pentecostal Christianity has more than 700 denominations. Closed-Mindedness How To Be A Good Agnostic Skepticism is Not Worthy of Belief Faith Has Its Reasons A Balanced Perspective on Reason and Faith Investigating Faith: Placing Religious Truth Back Into the Arena of Knowledge Eternity is Not Forever: An Argument for Theism Responding to the Jesus' Words 7:9-14; John 1:1, 18; 6:37-39, 44; 14:23; 17:5; 2 John 1:3; 2:22; Heb. In John 4:14, talking to the woman at the well, Jesus said, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life. In John 7:38, Jesus referred to Rivers of living water. This is a theme throughout the book of John. But standing by the cross [para t staur] of Jesus were His mother, and His mothers sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.. His insight is edifying. That specific doctrine was foreign to the Old Testament. In this episode I interact with " A Solution to Dale Tuggy's Argument against Oneness Pentecostal Christology " - a blog post by Skylar McManus. Example: in Isaiah 54:5, Maker is plural in Hebrew, lit., Makers; same with Psalm 149:2 where Maker is in the plural in Hebrew. 9. As we read through the New Testament, we will encounter what boggled on Why Calvinists And Catholics Share The Nicene Faith, on Why Charismatics Should Cut Glossolalia (Tongues) Out of Their Theology, on Why Christians Should Empty Themselves of Kenotic Christology, The Shortcoming of Christian Apologetics From An Apologist. "Against Oneness Pentecostalism -- An Exegetical-Theological Critique," by Michael Burgos, is a must-read for any serious-minded Christian who wants to be better informed and better equipped to sanctify Christ as Lord whenever the opportunity is presented to defend the biblical doctrine of Trinitarianism. But in verse 5, he says that he wishes everybody spoke in tongues, indicating that everybody does not speak in tongues. Deuteronomy 6:4: Hear, O Israel! Is this even a good argument that Jesus was God? Paul said these things are spiritually discerned. Recall what I said regarding what Oneness Pentecostals believe about being born again. Rather the Son is biblically (exegetically) presented as the Creator of all things Himself. Be prepared to cite (in context) and explain specific biblical passages supporting Christian doctrines, particularly the biblical basis for the Trinity, the historic understanding of the nature and work of Christ, and salvation by grace through faith. Baptism is not essential to ones reception of salvation. 6th ed. In the Gospels, Jesus referred to the Father over two hundred times as someone other than Himself, thus, as a distinct person. Nearly twenty years ago a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed Greg Boyd wrote a book defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the objections of Oneness Pentecostals. John 9:39) the invisible Father (cf. John 14:9 Oneness people routinely quote this passage (usually in the same breath with John 10:30), as though it was part of the passage. Trinitarians could easily affirm that they are one God, they share the same essence. The same can be said in Ecclesiastes 12:1, where the Hebrew literally reads, Remember also your Creators (plural in Heb.). McAlister of Toronto, Ont., began teaching that the Trinity doctrine was untrue and that baptism should be done correctly in Jesus name only-not in the traditional trinitarian formula. And over two hundred times, Scripture speaks of the Holy Spirit and Jesus as distinct persons- and Never once does Scripture call Jesus the Father or the Holy Spirit.. They maintain that God exists in two modes, as the Father in heaven, and as Jesus the Son on earth. More than 160 oneness ministers who were expelled from the AOG quickly formed their own alliances to promote their doctrines. 5. How would you be able to tell the difference? Note, that over two hundred times, the Father is referred to by Jesus or someone else as being clearly distinct from Jesus. . Behind this question lay a criticism of the commonly-held Trinitarian Pentecostal argument that the name of Jesus in baptismal texts from . Many trinitarians, unfortunately, have never heard of these arguments before. The North American Mission Board is not affiliated with SEND International or its SEND events. 3. At the 1986 Oneness Symposium, Robert Sabin addresses the charge of whether the UPCI is Christian group or a cult. Hence, the Son emptied Himself by means of His incarnation (cf. century, by a man named Praxeus, who is known from Tertullian's Against Praxeus. Now, I recognize that this may be vulnerable to the counter-strike that the author simply did not record them speaking in tongues, but they probably still did. There is no doubt that there is some form of tongues in the Bible. Charles R. Koester . In this piece he critically interacts with the following argument of mine ( from this blog post ). But what good reasons are there to think that? JWs, and unstudied Oneness advocates) chiefly utilize the pagan-triquetra arguments against it. If Oneness doctrine (or Modalism) is the so-called doctrine of the apostles, then, why was it universally condemned as *heretical* by the early church Fathers (some of who were disciples of the original apostles) and condemned by all the important church councils and creeds? Oneness Pentecostals honestly believe that their view of the Godhead is the true doctrine . Jesus is a perfect representation of the person of the Father. Mark 16:17: These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will speak with new tongues . (BDAG, 46). 50 This is the bread which comes down ek tou ouranou, so that one may eat of it and not die. This interpretation is not an attempt to understand the text. Modalism rips the heart out of Christianityit denies Christ by misrepresenting Him. In doing so, they will think that they have mounted a proper argument against trinitarian theology because they believe that the doctrine of the trinity states that there are three gods. One cannot have the Father except through the Son, Jesus Christ: Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also (1 John 2:23; see also John 17:3). I am beginning to suspect that, since Christianity is unique in . Dan. He has exgsato [lead out, unfold, declare, Thayer, 1996: 223] Him (the Father). 1:33): 'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he . The Holy Spirit is not regarded as a person at all, merely a manifestation of Jesus power or a synonym for Him. In this theology, the Father embodies the divine attributes of the Godhead and the Son embodies the human aspects. PAW: Aenon Bible School-Indianapolis, Ind. distinguished fr. However, the Oneness Pentecostal could grant that it is not really Scripture. All modern writings or revelations must be analyzed in light of sound principles of biblical interpretation. But for a deeper understanding, please view my other posts on this important subject. Father) to glorify Him together with Him (para seaut, thus, a shared glorification, a glory that only God can have, Isa. In John 1:18, we read: No one has seen God [the Father] at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him (lit. 2:7, the participle labn,(taking as in taking the nature of a servant) is a participle of means (cf. Against Oneness Pentecostalism: An Exegetical-Theological Critique Author Michael Burgos Publisher Church Militant Publications, 2016 ISBN 0692644067, 9780692644065 Length 246 pages Export. Check out John 14:8-9, Philip said, Show us the Father and that will be enough. Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time, and yet you have not known Me Philip? Now, I want to use an argument that the Oneness Pentecostals use all the time in this vein of thought, who will often counter the argument opposing Acts 2:38 (Salvation) . The Pentecostal arguments defending this special blessing are interesting and important. He said that God the Father was the One True God of the Old Testament. If you were to join a Oneness Pentecostal church, what would your experience be? ; and there is a Japanese form, again with no religious significance. This is the greatest weakness of the Oneness position: For if the Son created, then, He eternally existed with the Father. And you are pretexting the passage with no consideration of the context of chap. Further, the Father is spirit. He claims the symbol used by trinitarians is demonic. Oneness Pentecostals believe that the title "Son" only applied to Christ when he became flesh on earth, but that Christ was the Logos or Mind of the Father prior to his being made human, and not a separate person. If God is unitarian, how do you explain passages such as Genesis 19:24 where Yahweh (LORD), rained brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven? Lastly, There has never been a recognized biblical scholar, commentator, NT Greek grammar, nor Lexical source that has ever interpreted John 14:9 in a Oneness-unitarian way as you do.- because neither this text, nor Johns entire theology supports the Oneness idea that Jesus is the same person as the Father. Because I live, you also will live. "Michael Burgos has produced a brilliant blend of systematic theology and biblical exegesis with a detailed and thorough discussion of the main passages at the center of the dispute between Oneness Pentecostalism and traditional trinitarianism. In my opinion it is better than Burgos' Against Oneness Pentecostals, Boyd's Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity. . Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are roles in God's plan of redemption, not intrinsic distinctions or distinct persons. Includes initial monthly payment and selected options. Note the Context: In verse 6 Jesus says, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. In verse 7, He explains to His disciples that if they had known Him they would have known the Father also. The largest oneness movements today are the United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (PAW). John 14:18: I will not leave you as orphans. In spite of the (unclear) origins, the Triquetra has a rich meaning that has been used by the early church to signify the Trinity. I wont give him this web page..too bad. This seems to disconfirm the idea that all believers speak in tongues. They believe that Jesus and the Father are one essential person, though operating as different modes. John 14:9: He who has seen Me has seen the Father. If God is unitarian, why is it that there are so many places in the Bible where the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are clearly distinguished from each other in the same verse? Important Question: If Jesus is the Father, why is there not a single passage that states this in the NT or the OT? Well, in verse 18, Jesus is talking about the resurrection. The Trinitarians won the majority and a "Statement of Fundamental Truths" was adopted that affirmed the Trinity. So, if you are going to mount an argument on the basis of Mark 16:17 for the necessity of tongues, you would have to mount an argument for the necessity of resisting a snake bite. the God)], and [kai] the fellowship of the [tou] Holy Spirit be with you all. . Customize your subscription to get the latest of what matters most to you! The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. After all, in John 17:11, the text says that the disciples are one in the same way that Jesus and the Father are one. He was making claims that no mere human could make. Biblically, only Jesus, God the Son, can rightfully represent the Father (because He is God a distinct person from the the Father), and represent man because He is fully man. Share your personal testimony of Gods grace and your faith in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. However, this seems to be far too simplistic of a reading. Of course, this is a mischaracterization. John 1:18; Col. 1:15; 1 Tim. The Son is and has been eternally subsisting as the perfect and exact representation (charaktr) of the very nature (hupostases) of Him (autou, of Him, not as Him; Heb. These are great questions and wonderful references. Biblical Response: Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone (see Rom. With scholarly precision, Michael Burgos has provided an incisive evaluation of Oneness exegesis and theology while accurately representing the teachings of Oneness Pentecostals. Today it is predominately African-American and is headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana. This view of the Trinity is connected with Oneness Pentecostals' Christology. John 3:5: Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. also John 15:26; 16:28). "Michael Burgos has produced a brilliant blend of systematic theology and biblical exegesis with a detailed and thorough discussion of the main passages at the center of the dispute between. 6. Additionally, the repetition of the preposition distinguishes the Father and the Son as two distinct self-aware Subjects (e.g., 1 John 1:3). Third, it may be that Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the one name under which we are baptized. , Language Recently a well-known pastor, television preacher, and best-selling author was asked about his beliefs about God. If he and the Father are one, does that necessarily mean that he is the Father? . 6 That may be the case. Bowman, Robert M., Jr. Oneness Pentecostals and the Name of Jesus, paper. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.. 2:10). We now consider and refute all Pentecostal Objections to the fact that the Bible teaches spiritual gifts ceased at the end of the apostolic age around 100AD Conclusion Summary: No longer any need for gifts: Apostles have been led into all truth: Jn 16:13 + Jude 3 The Bible has been written and confirmed to be inspired History of Heresies - History always repeats itself when no one is paying attention. While this is not a good argument that Jesus is the Father, it is a good argument that Jesus is God. I do not think so. 36: But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe., 38: For I have come down apo tou ouranou, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me, 41: Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, I am the bread that came down ek tou ouranou, 42: They were saying, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?